Open Thread #3, Winter 2015

Beware the Jabberwock rumor mill, my son!

On a recent conference call, Friedman said he doesn’t yet know what his payroll will be in 2016, but that much of what his group is focused on might not dominate Twitter in the coming months. Then again, Friedman is never one to quash a bad rumor if it can help his cause, so the Dodgers figure to get dragged into plenty of rumor mills they’re not actually attending once again.

That is Mark Saxon of ESPN. This part will not appease package, I’m afraid. Saxon suggests that the Dodgers will be aggressive going after second-tier free agents and dumping older expensive guys:

the Dodgers certainly aren’t giving off the signal that they’re going to be at the head of the line with the biggest check this time around. In fact, they didn’t do that last year under Friedman either.


“We’re going to do everything we can to maintain a 90-plus-win team with a really good chance of winning the [National League] West and a chance to win the World Series, while also doing everything we can to get younger. It doesn’t happen overnight,” Friedman said.

239 thoughts on “Open Thread #3, Winter 2015

  1. Think about this, the Dodgers sign Grenike and Price. I know it will never happen but if that happened it would weaken the Giants as well as strengthen the Dodgers. The Giants would all but be out of contention next year. Sound good? Just pie in the sky, I know.

    • It wouldn’t weaken the Gnats at all, as they have never had either Greinke or Price. It probably would make the Dodgers stronger.

        • Maybe, but you don’t weaker by losing something you never had in the first place.

          The Gnats, by the way, have been very reluctant to spend big money on free agents (except when keeping B*nds).

    • You admit that this is not very likely. So why think about it? If you want to think about unlikely things, why not think about finding some way to get fabulously rich, buy the Dodgers, fire FO. reinstall Ned and have him sign Zack, Price, and two more high priced starters plus all the closers on the market, sign Heyward and whomever you like. That doesn’t cost anymore than thinking about signing Zack and Price alone. You have to have a cut-off point. With me, it’s what is realistically possible. If I don’t think FO will do it, I don’t think about it. I have a lower disappointment factor that way…

      • I think about it because I constantly hope for a winner and I know things like prime pitching are key IMO. I also keep hoping that the FO will prove me wrong and get some decent players which they have not done so far. Every time I think of rebuilding it sickens me.

        • Teams that are “rebuilding” do not take three straight division titles with 92, 94 and 92 wins.

          • I know you don’t but I started counting when the new FO took over so for me it is 92 wins and 2 games worse than last year as they don’t get credit for Ned’s teams.. Also you may not think they are rebuilding but we shall see after this off season.

          • Actually Package will probably be technically correct about this. As I understand FO’s concept of operation, they would be constantly rebuilding, replacing 1 or 2 players every year as they start getting expensive to keep AND as competent replacements for them work their way up through the farm system. The plan is not to keep players until they get old, and keeping winning at the same time.

    • OK, let’s run with this as Bumsrap likes… It could make sense on several levels: As a stand alone trade or as a precursor to trading Puig for Osuna or Puig and ??? for Osuna and Fernandez. In any event it creates a need in centerfield.

    • Pederson: hit 26 HRs, walked a lot, decent OBP. Plays center field very well. Has great potential. package: Get rid of him now!

      Miller: went 6-17 but did have decent ERA of 3.02. Probably better than last season showed. Under .500 for career, but has lifetime 3.22 ERA. package: Sign him up!

      Are you ever going to be objective about players?

      • Pederson had a very good first half season, a very bad second half. looking at his season in total, it wasn’t impressive except for home runs. Good defense but very few players keep their jobs on their defense. Miller also is very difficult to assess. Going forward, they’re both worth looking at. It’s a gamble either way. I’m glad FO makes the decisions, not me…

      • I am being objective. He hit well before the pitchers figured out how to pitch to him and every since he can’t hit and I don’t believe we will ever see him hit like he did the first of last season. Just because he walked a lot and built up his OBP doesn’t not mean he is a good hitter. As you know I am not high on Grandal either but as a hitter I see him much better than Pederson Miller is a much better player than Joc.

  2. From Rosenthal:
    The Dodgers have at least discussed the possibility of signing both Greinke and Price internally, according to Rosenthal, but they’re unlikely to go that route. Even the Dodgers and their seemingly limitless budget aren’t keen on the notion of paying three starters in the vicinity of $30MM annually, and they already have one such pitcher in Clayton Kershaw.

  3. Red Sox shopping Hanley– — Package is probably calling FO, pleading for him to get Hanley back. I thought about trading Crawford for him straight up, horrible contract for horrible contract, and decided I wouldn’t trade (and you know how much I hate Crawford) because his contract is only two years and Hanley’s is three. Those Boston GMs must be the dumbest people on earth.

    • But here’s the best line in that story: after mentioning three clubs the Sox’ GM is looking at as the other side of a Hanley deal, the author says “It’s not immediately clear if those three clubs have interest, however.”

      If that’s not a classic Hot Stove League rumor I don’t know what is.

  4. Well, Heyman is reporting the Tigers have signed Jordan Zimmerman. The contract is said to be in the neighborhood of 100 million dollars. Guess that is one pitcher off the Dodger so called radar.

      • I have a huge doubt that the Dodgers will sign one of the top FA pitchers, Greinke, Price and Cueto. I don’t really want Cueto but he is better than most.

          • I think the current track record of the FO suggests that they do not sign players over 30 for big bucks or actually any player for big bucks.

          • Hard to speak of a track record for a group that’s been in charge for only a very short time. What front office do you like that goes out and blow tons of money on players over 30? The champion Royals, for what it’s worth, had only the 15th highest payroll.

          • Very true but they did trade for Cueto and Zobrist down the stretch in an effort to win which they did. They also brought in Kendrys Morales last year who really helped out.

          • Kendrys Morales was a risk coming off a serious injury, so KC got him cheap (the Dodgers, by the way, don’t really need a DH, though they had one last year in Hanley). Cueto did very little for them. Zobrist is a good utility player, but Quique’s a better one.

    • This is the one with two “n’s”. What would your reaction have been if the Dodgers had just signed him?

    • I might understand a Dodger blogger calling for Yasiel to be traded, but who is this guy to advocate such? It’s not like he would be sent back to Cuba.

  5. Dodger Insider putting up some yummy numbers for Yimi. Says he ranked in top 30 among relievers in 2015.

    • He had a good WHIP but the other numbers were not outstanding. He also had 6BS. Top 30 is a bit of a stretch.

      • The article notes:
        Garcia ranked in the top 30 among relief pitchers in the following categories:

        SO/BB: 6.6 (fifth)

        WHIP: 0.91 (eighth)

        Opponents’ OBP: .242 (10th)

        Baserunners per nine innings: 8.56 (12th)

        BB/9: 1.65 (17th)

        SO/9: 10.87 (25th)

        Opponents OPS: .370 (28th)

        • He was 3-5 with a 0.95 WHIP and a 3.34 ERA. He also surrendered 8 HRs in 56.2 innings, to go with his 5 BSs. I am not down on him but not impressed either.

          • I think that his record, the BS and the dingers are all apparent to everyone and etched in our memories from watching the games together, which is why a further look at his underlying numbers is revealing and suggests potential for a guy after his rookie season. Our beloved Kenley after all gave up 6 dingers in 52 innings and Yimi’s FIP is actually better than JP’s. In a universe that would encompass the top two relievers in every mlb team, i.e., 90, that he might rank better than 45th based on the Dodgers Insider evaluation is quite an accomplishment for the young man

        • Didn’t say I would send him away, I am just not that impressed with him. Don’t worry WBB, I know there would never be a trade like the one you outlined.

    • From USA Today as of 7:30PM HST.

      From an update to the story Audit posted above:

      11:29pm: A police spokesman says that the department is not aware of any allegation that Puig was involved in any physical altercation with his sister, Hernandez reports (Twitter links). If that holds true, then it certainly seems that any domestic violence-related inquiry will be short-lived. Of course, it remains possible that other disciplinary measures could be considered.

      • Alas, it won’t make any difference… If you’re pro-Puig, you forgive him; If you’re anti-Puig, this is more indication of trouble and reason to trade him. There is no privacy anymore….

  6. Last night, in Malargüe, we had my host’s first kid goat barbecue of the season. Better than any turkey.

    • I still like Puig – a lot – but if you get a really good return it’s worth considering. That said, given last season, they might have to sell low at the moment.

    • I’m OK with trading him, provided we get a fair return. (Fair in this case means we are likely over-rating him)

    • Even if you manage to get someone to buy high on him he would need to be replaced. This guy mentions two possibilities, but they would both be costly and both Gordon and Heyward are LH. Moreover, Puig seems like the sort of bargain with high upside that this FO would favor keeping. Also, you need to give Roberts a challenge.

  7. Late to the party, but grateful for this community of Dodger friends. Hope you had a fulfilling, or at least filling day!

  8. Happy Thanksgiving to all you all American friends. Hope you have an enjoyable day of celebration and remembering all you have to be thankful for.

  9. The Dodgers top needs according to FAZ are pitching and second base. The Mets need to re-sign Murphy and Cespedes or trade for second baseman and ourfielder and have plenty of pitching. Miami might want to trade Fernandez.

    If the Dodgers could not get Harvey for Puig and Hernandez, might they make a three team trade and wind up with Fernandez? The Mets would trade a starter other than Harvey, DeGrom, or Syndergaard. Matz and Wheeler maybe might go to Miami.

    Getting Fernandez would give the Dodgers a #2 pitcher to replace Greinke without increasing payroll. The Dodgers might then trade Ethier and Ryu for a pitcher that has less risk that Ryu and accomplish what they need to accomplish with the rotation without increasing payroll.

    It would be nice to get Chapman for Alvarez especially if they can agree with Chapman for a three year contract before the trade.

      • The easiest thing to do would be to sign Greinke, Zimmerman, and Price to free agent contracts but that might not be what KFAZ wants to do. Aren’t you curious as to what other options might be considered besides signing free agents?

        We could have some fun kicking around scenarios and discussing the pros and cons of them or we could limit our comments to yes or no which is basically what you did Audit.

        • I see no point at all in discussing counter-productive trades/signings or wild, pie in the sky dreams that will never happen. Just my opinion, but it seems to me that most of your proposals fall into one or the other of those categories. My fault, my failure, if you choose to look at it that way. I won’t rain on any more of your parades.

          • What is wrong with dreaming of possible trade scenios? They won’t ever happen with this FO but I do it all the time. Some of them also make some sense.

          • Speaking Spanish makes me non-American? There are hundreds of millions of Spanish-speakers in America, from the Yukon to the tip of Tierra del Fuego. It’s unlike you, Mr. Trump, to hide behind an alias.

          • Sorry, I did not intend to offend you in any way. I just thought you might not be from the U.S. I know you do not celebrate Thanksgiving but I hope you have a good day.

          • I limit my far-fetched daydreams to young women and lottery jackpots… Baseball is serious business.

          • No, not at all, I’m just choosing not to play your game. You have as much right as I do to propose trades, signings, etc,. In my opinion they are farfetched and unrealistic, but you still have the right to propose them. I’m just choosing not to debate them just for the sake of posting words that won’t change anything. Enjoy yourself, pay no mind to what I think.

          • Most of my trade thoughts are tied to something KFAZ have said.
            1. They want to reduce payroll and trade an outfielder. Thus the Pujols, Ethier, Crawford, Gonzales idea.
            2. They have looked oin on Chapman, thus the Alvarez for Chapman idea.
            3. They see second base and pitching as the positions they most want to explore, thus some of my ideas of second basemen that might be traded for or pitchers that might be traded for instead of signing free agents.

            Clearly there is no one here to kick around trade thoughts typical of the Hot Stove League so I will stop trying to start up conversation.

    • Not sure that another closer is a priority, when we already have one of the top ones. Selling low on Ryu seems like a waste and how would one replace Dre’s production?

      • Given a choice when both Crawford and Ethier and Puig were all healthy, the Dodgers played Crawford over Ethier. So the easy answer to your question is Crawford.

        In any case, Ethier was going to platoon with SVS if he were not traded so you are asking who could replace the offense of a platoon player. If left field is shared by Crawford, Schebler, and SVS/Hernandez, Ethier is replaced in house and with ease. You could have come with that and added to the conversation Bob.

        We have too much counter punching here and not enough brainstorming.

        Ryu, Wheeler, Fernandez are all still recovering from TJ and therefore none will be sold high. Ryu fits well into that trade group. Fernandez is further along with his recovery. Bob, why not suggest another player besides Ryu if you think Ryu is a weak link?

        • How about this? Sign Cespedes and trade him and Puig to Miami for Stanton and Fernandez and if that is not enough, throw in Kiki or Peranza?

          • Fine, except you can’t trade a newly signed free agent. Not to mention that Stanton’s in a league of his own, and Fernández is an elite starter, and the Fish would never do such a trade for a journeyman like Céspedes and a still somewhat unproven Puig. And not to mention that there’s no such person as “Peranza.”

          • Listen, this FO probably won’t do much of anything this off season except give kids shots and retreads a possible position. Sorry my spelling offends you, I’ll try and do better. I thought Stanton was in the NL. Are you saying the FO won’t sign or trade for elite players?

          • I am sorry that metaphor continues to confuse you. In reality, Stanton’s simply not available, unless you want to offer Kershaw-plus and assume all the payroll obligations.

        • Dre put up an OPS+ of 148 against right handers last year and you think that can be replaced “with ease”? Sorry if this substracts from the conversation.
          Fernandez and Ryu in the same trade group? Fernandez came back from TJ and has shown potential to be what he was. Ryu had shoulder surgery and hasn’t pitched since.

          • Bob, take those Ethier stats and try to use them to trade Ethier and when you don’t get much, lets talk again.

          • You are the one who suggested trading Ethier not me and now you are saying that the Dodgers wouldn’t get much for him? Sorry if I am boring you.

        • Reply

          Share ›

          Bumsrap Bob_Hendley • 4 hours ago
          Given a choice when both Crawford and Ethier and Puig were all healthy, the Dodgers played Crawford over Ethier. So the easy answer to your question is Crawford.

      • Chapman and the Dodgers are in the rumor mill. Why not discuss it here. I don’t have a problem with mixing and matching Chapman and Jansen in the 8th and 9th innings depending on who is due up in each inning. Do you Bob?

        • Yes, and I would like Willie in CF. You are willing to use resources to acquire Champan and give him a contract of what $15 million a year for 66 ininngs when you already have a closer? Hatcher outperformed Champan when he came back from his injury in regards to ERA and WHIP and makes about one-tenth of that salary.

          • The Dodgers have checked in on Chapman per so I am wondering what it would take to get him? I through out Alvarez as a possible trade piece.

            Why can’t you ever suggest what you might want to do to improve the bullpen so the rest of us can immediately throw cold water on your thoughts. Bob, I like the way you think but stop being boring, please.

      • Thank you Package. We do and we had a great Thanksgiving. I love this Holiday. Happy Thanksgiving Package.

  10. Well, now that the FO has finally got a manager, perhaps it will make some moves to strengthen the team or maybe it will be a repeat of last years agony.

    • “…” Package says as he eagerly awaits FO coming out of the closet and completely reversing his previous seasons methods of operation and doing the unthinkable, getting rid of all the young players and trading for a rousing collection of over-the-hill-impact-players. Pop another Xanax, Package…

      • I guess Dee Gordon was an over the hill impact player? He was the 1st player in MLB history to win a batting championship, gold glove and stolen base leader all in the same year. Nice trade. We got Grandal for Kemp and he hit worse than Ellis. They picked up McCarthy and Anderson who I guess you would think are a couple of studs. Who did the Dodgers get later in the season ? Latos, Arroyo, Wood and an assortment of retreads, injury busts and cheaters. You may call that successful but I don’t. Surely you don’t call last year’s off season moves successful? BTW, I never said get rid of all the kids, I just don’t think all the positions need to be kids, especially busts like Pederson. You need to quit whatever it is your smoking.

        • If Dee has a season even close to last year’s the trade might be looked at as a mistake. On the other hand, we got parts and traded one of them for Dee’s replacement, Kendrick.

          You hate Grandal, so there’s no point in going over his injury except to say that it was apparently even worse than the team thought at the time.

          McCarthy got hurt. It happens. Anderson was a serviceable pitcher all year long. In fact, in light of his history he was a pleasant surprise in that he stayed healthy.

          You still don’t recognize how good an outfielder Pederson is, and you continually ignore his walks, his OBP, and his 26 home runs

          • One thing for sure, the Dodgers won 92 games last year compared to 94 wins the year before. We were told that the changes would make the team better and it did not. That is worse and that is also a fact.

          • You want worse? Worse would have been spending $40+ million last year for WAR -0.7 (Matty and Hanley) with the prospects of 4 more years of that.

          • Ethier and Crawford are reminders already on our roster that it’s dumb to give players long term contracts at high dollars. There are always younger, better ones coming along. FO has the right idea; Grow them on the farm, use them on the big club while they’re (price) controlled, then let some other sucker overpay them.

          • I realize this is like talking to a wall, but a difference of 2 wins over 162 does not represent a serious decline. It’s within the margin of random baseball happenings and didn’t affect the team’s playoff chances at all.

          • You know what Foul Tip? You are exactly right. True on all counts. My only point is the FO made huge trades and spent money for nothing and the team did not get better and they said it would. I also do not want to see the team continue to go down. Is this thinking wrong?

          • A good case can be made that the 2015 team was as good overall as 2014, if not better–certainly deeper and somewhat younger. Even if it did win 2 games less. And even if it lost some big-name stars.

            A really good case can be made that the team didn’t decline at all and isn’t likely to this year, assuming the rotation is fortified. If it isn’t, look out. But I can’t see the FO not adding some starters, even if they’re not big names.

            I’d love to see both Greinke and Price in LA. If that happened they’d be sending a serious signal to the fan base there’d be no way to miss. But it’s not likely. One, maybe, but probably not both given their ages near end of contracts they’ll sign and the massive money they’ll be owed in their declining years.

            The FO has said it may take time to get the team where they want it. They’ve made clear they won’t sacrifice their plan or mortgage the future and go boom or bust in any one year–though many fans would love to see just that.

            If they did and the result was bust, what then? Start looking for discounts on the rails they’d be ridden out of town on?

          • Not to mention that McCarthy’s season-ending injury was to his arm. His arm had not been injured before, despite his other injuries. No one can realistically claim an injury a player hasn’t had before is validation for believing signing him was a bad mistake. TJ happens.

        • I’d guess he regrets that trade a lot more than you so, inasmuch as that is his business. If for no other reason than he’d be a much bigger chip to play this winter than last. Yes, he’d be an impact player and an impact trading player. But FO has learned to live with his mistake and move on down the road, something you should try to do. There is not a poster here who doesn’t have an unfavorite trade he dearly wishes the club had not made, but we have gotten over it, learned to live with the club the way it is, because it’s not going to change to please one, or even all, of us. I suspect this won’t do any good, that you argue merely to get attention. That will only work so long, at some point people will just ignore you. Drink the cool-aid, Package, learn to live with what you have…

          • Believe it or not, I have moved on from last year’s trades and pickups but it is not easily forgotten The part I hate is most of the time most folks continue to gloss over and even make excuses for what has happened. I just hate thinking that mistakes will continue to happen by the bushel. What will you folks say if the team continues to regress?

          • Mistakes will always happen, it’s not a perfect world. As an observer rather than the one who made the mistake, we are privileged to feel no guilt. I always say, “I’m glad I didn’t do that.” The realization that I could have made the mistake makes it easier for me to forgive those who do. So criticize mildly what FO does but be glad you’re not in the hot seat.

      • And the first threepeat division title in all Dodger history, along with taking the NLDS series down to a tight game 5 in the crapshoot known as the playoffs.

        Really, no good reason not to move on from such self-inflicted “agony” to anticipation and enjoyment of what the future brings.

  11. The Rocks have DFAd Wilin Rosario, catcher/first baseman and a pretty good hitter. I could be tempted to pick him up as a third string catcher-pinch-hitter-first baseman. Has good power, could be useful as a pinch hitter or platoon partner for Agon and on hand insurance for our catchers who seem to get banged up a lot. I think I’d rather have him than a 5th outfielder or 6th infielder.

  12. The Dodgers are doing some Succession Planning with more and more of their positions.





    Plus all the pitching prospects that will make their way onto the team in the next 3 years.

  13. I wonder if there will be a noticeable difference in a hitter’s game plan under Roberts compared to Mattingly. Will there be more bunting against the shift? Will hitters work the count more? Will hitters go to the opposite field more? Will there be more hit-and-run and steal attempts?

    Maybe we will get a hint at the press conference when Roberts puts on his Dodger Jersey.

    • I think there are better pitchers but none have Chapman’s dread factor. Hitters dread having to stand next to the plate when Chapman is throwing baseballs.

      • Referring to dave’s comment “And now back to waiting on player news…”
        The Dodgers have made a formal announcement of the hire.

        • I thought you were referring to Dave’s comment but you didn’t put it as a reply and instead started a new comment thread so I wasn’t sure.

          Or maybe I was being a little snarky on a Monday morning. Oops, if so.

  14. Now that the Dodgers have Dave Roberts as Manager, I want Alex Cora as bench coach and César Izturis as first base coach.

    • Wallach knew he wasn’t in the running for the Manager’s job here, wonder why he didn’t go with Mattingly? Does he want the Bench Coach job here? All positions except Pitching Coach are open. Must be nice to be able to call your friends and offer them a nice job. I am assuming he can do that.

      • It’s always nice to have a fall back job should Wallach not remain as the Dodger bench coach. I would think he would do that job in LA more than he would in Miami but will take the bird in hand (Miami) unless the Dodgers act soon.

        I am ready for a completely new coaching staff. If Honeycutt becomes the system wide corporate pitching executive the Dodgers could then hire a team pitching coach.

        If so, who would you want as pitching coach? I don’t think Hershiser would take that job. He already has a good job and doesn’t need the money. Gregg Maddux would be nice.

  15. Here’s the LA Times story about Roberts. It hasn’t been confirmed and won’t be till Monday, so keep the tops on the champagne (or sour beer, if the choice makes you unhappy).

    There’s a poll asking if he’s the right choice in that story: it’s running 73% in favor of him.

  16. Dodgers To Hire Dave Roberts As Manager

    By Mark Polishuk | November 22, 2015 at 7:28pm CST

    The Dodgers are expected to hire Dave Roberts as the team’s next manager on Monday, sources tell Dylan Hernandez, Bill Plaschke and Bill Shaikin of the Los Angeles Times.

    • Sounds good. Would like to see the Dodgers sign a few more before the end of this current signing period.

    • What difference would that make? We wouldn’t have AGon? No Crawford? Would the team have gotten into the playoffs 3 straight years?

      • You have to use your imagination to come up with who the players the Dodgers might have added if they hadn’t made that trade. Kemp might not have been traded, and as far as that goes, who is to say that he doesn’t run into the fence in Denver if that trade hadn’t been made.

          • I was at that game. Kemp turned his back to home plate and ran full speed into the fence as if he had another 30 feet to run before hitting it. The game stopped for 20 minutes while he laid on the ground. Mattingly let him stay in and in the same inning he runs in on a popup and dives head first and slides 15 feet on the ground trying to catch it. Finally, Mattingly took him out of the game.

            That was just after the trade and Kemp might have been trying to not only rally the Dodgers who needed rallying, but perhaps trying to tell the new players that this was still his team.

            If he had had a different mental state, he might not have been so aggressive and not run into the fence.

          • “If he had had a different mental state, he might not have been so aggressive and not run into the fence.”
            Can’t believe that. That was just the kind of player he was.

      • Maybe I will refer to Kasten as Ahab and FAZ as Ishmael until the Dodgers at least get to a World Series.

  17. Well, its not like I didn’t see it coming. This crowd has a plan that we aren’t allowed to see. What it is will happen when they do it. Just hope that the team doesn’t have a bad streak and can continue to have a chance to get into the playoffs.

      • With all due respect, I don’t think they are open at all. They keep their plans very secretive and allow the fans to hope the team will bring top players on board. It takes a while before you finally understand that their plan must be cheap and not care whether they win a WS or not as long as they get to the playoffs. Doesn’t make sense to me because I want to win NOW, not in a few years. Too old to wait.

        • I don’t buy this line from you. This notion of somehow being betrayed by the FO. Perhaps a casual fan might not have understood the significance of hiring Friedman, but you knew it from day one. They are as open as any other FO is baseball, why should I demand transparency?

          • Perhaps I just don’t agree with their plan, the little I know about it. It is obvious to me that they are rebuilding and banking on the kids to develop while bringing as many of them as possible to keep the team on a winning track. Hopefully. Of course it is all about the money. I understand the significance of hiring Friedman, I just hope the owners get what they paid for. We the fans will continue to have to play the game by their rules.

          • “We the fans will continue to have to play the game by their rules.”
            True. tattoo this on the inside of your eyelids.

        • Of course they allow their fans to hope, all clubs do, and they couldn’t stop them if they tried. Which they won’t. You’re blaming the club for your problem. The club is the club, they will be who they are. Fans will chose which clubs they like and root for.

          • Audit, I never said I could control what the team does but that doesn’t mean I have to like it. I also never said the fans couldn’t choose which teams they like and root for. You seem to have a problem understanding that just because the club does or doesn’t do something that I have to like it. I don’t. It is not a problem, it is an opinion and I won’t back up because the others don’t agree with me. I liked your opinions better when they were yours alone.

    • You’re contradicting yourself again: you’re the one who saw the plan that we’re not allowed to see.