Game 57, 2015

Cardinals at Dodgers, 5:00PM PT, TV: ESPN

The Cards and Dodgers play Sunday Night Baseball. It’ll be Zack Greinke for the Dodgers versus Lance Lynn for the Cardinals. Greinke’s last game was astonishing because it was the first bad one he’s had all year: he gave up ten hits and five runs to the Rockies over six innings. Even with that aberration, he’s 5-1 with a 1.97 ERA on the year. Lynn is 4-4 with a 3.03 ERA on the year. His last start was his best of the season: he went 7 2/3 scoreless innings against the Brewers.

Matt Carpenter’s bruised triceps makes him day-to-day for the Cardinals.

Lineup when available.

Turner hitting cleanup? I’ll bet he hasn’t done that since high school!

  • WBBsAs

    So, it’s ESPN blackout day.

    • package206

      Don’t worry, I will let you know how your buddy Grandal is doing.

      • john galt

        Package, cheating is a big part of sports. If they eliminated all cheaters, each team would have only one or two players. Lying in trade talks and player signings, lying about pitch location, claiming to have made a tag or catch when they didn’t, lying about condition or ability. Cheating is the obverse of the sports coin.

        • package206

          So true but doing PEDs really sticks in my craw.

          • john galt

            You have a right. I’m not condoning it, just ignoring it.

          • He was convicted, served his time, and was released back into society. Unless he slips again he’s entitled to the same chance as anyone else.

          • package206

            He has the same chance but that doesn’t mean that everyone should just forget it.

          • foul tip

            Nor does it mean he should have it held against him forever. It takes more than one strike to make an out.

            Everyone most assuredly has not forgotten it. It’s just not the only thing they see when they look at a talented young catcher with a lot of potential.

          • john galt

            Yeah, look at Billy O’Hare’s father…

          • How did you feel about Lo Duca and Gagne when they played for the Dodgers? Did you want to expunge their records once it was revealed they’d been using PEDs?

            It’s too easy to be an absolutist.

          • package206

            Didn’t have any use for either after it was determined they had used. Link, that is cheating!! That is why these PED users will never be in the HOF.

  • WBBsAs

    Gnats lose to Fillies. That’ll at least make the blackout easier to tolerate.

    • package206

      Well, hopefully Grandal will get a fix and be ready to play tonight. Hopefully he won’t have any errrors or passed balls.

      • john galt

        Glad to see you’re both having fun…

        • package206

          Always nice to get going early. By the way, what was it that you wanted me to admit?

          • john galt

            ???

      • Bob_Hendley

        I will say that Grandal should have signaled to Agon the other night to throw to first. He only did so half-heartedley when it was too late.

        • john galt

          That would have been nice but the big blame goes to Agon, he should have looked. The runner might have fallen, or some other strange event. He didn’t do all he could do.

          • Bob_Hendley

            Or Quique’s fault for being where no one thought he would be?

    • package206

      By the way, you spell Phillies with a Ph not an F. Just thought you would want to know.

  • package206

    Hey Link, are you blacked out tonight?

    • Don’t know. Don’t think so. We usually get Sunday Night Baseball even if West Coast teams are playing.

  • package206

    Tonight’s lineup looks much better except for Grandal. I hope Ethier does OK in left.

    • WBBsAs

      Of course. You’d rather start to somebody whose sole offensive weapon is the sac bunt.

      • package206

        Yea, that way I don’t have to worry about drugs getting in the way of actual, true performance.

  • package206

    Tonight’s question from the Package is: Do you think Donnie sets the lineup by himself or gets help and do you think he decides who will play each game or gets help??

    • john galt

      One vote for “Gets Help”. I can see choices that reflect his stubborn, out of touch with current capabilities thinking but there are other selections that you absolutely know came down from the FO. Heisey is a prime example. I’m sure he would rather play a more capable Ethier or Guerrero rather than Heisey, so we know he is beknighted by King Friedman.

      • package206

        Let me expand a little. Do you think that this happens on a daily basis or just sometimes? For instance, it is Donnie who moves Rollins up and down in the lineup or is he getting help? Or, lets sit 3 or 4 regulars instead of maybe one or two?

        • Are you watching on ESPN? They just discussed this. Friedman and co. provided Maddon a ton of data daily when they were at Tampa Bay to help him make out the lineup, Dan S. said. He assumed they do the same here, which explains, Dan said, why Turner is hitting cleanup. He’s got a .999 OPS split against right-handed pitchers. I looked it up, and that’s correct.

          • package206

            Yes, I am watching ESPN and I heard that conversation. I still wonder if it is just giving the information or if Donnie also gets hands on instruction also.

          • Nobody gets the benefit of the doubt from you, huh?

          • package206

            So I take it that you think think that Donnie just gets the info from the FO and uses it any way he likes?

          • I don’t think Mattingly is too stupid to recognize trends and strong performance numbers.

          • package206

            True but this management trumps the manager every time in my opinion.

          • On what is that opinion based?

          • package206

            It is based on past and present moves by the FO. The fact that they will not obtain another GOOD starting pitcher. It is being arrogant to continue to put in retreads to a starting rotation that is 3/5ths depleted. I am sure Donnie would love another starter with Hamel like credentials.

          • Bob_Hendley

            That’s a whole different can of worms than the issue you first posed here above.

          • package206

            No its not. I think Donnie is required to let the FO have the final say on anything it wants including the everyday lineup and who plays on any given day. I also think that Donnie has very little input as to who is obtained on the team

          • Why?

          • package206

            Because I don’t think he wants to be fired.

          • My “why” had to do with your belief that Don had no input on who was acquired.

          • package206

            Do you think a true baseball man like Don Mattingly would obtain some of the pitching that the team now and has had??

          • Anderson has been excellent. McCarthy had a big chunk of unexpected bad luck.

          • package206

            McCarthy has been hurt before and Anderson still has the jury out. C’mon man, you know the Dodgers could have done much better than those two.

          • Bob_Hendley

            I would think that Donnie might have been asked for input as regards certain players, certainly those on the roster, but don’t believe that he was critical in the decision making regarding the moves and players obtained. This is fairly standard. (But, again, this is not the issue you originally posed).

          • package206

            Not sure exactly what you mean?

          • Bob_Hendley

            The FO obtains the personnel and Donnie manages it. All you are saying is that the FO is in charge of personnel, which no one would argue, but based on that you believe that they manage the personnel as well, but offer no evidence.

          • package206

            It would be hard to prove that without being in the room with those guys as you surely know but you don’t know that it isn’t happening either.

          • Bob_Hendley

            But is there something happening in terms of the line up that makes you suspect this?

          • Bob_Hendley

            Not sure what that means. One of the tasks of the manager is to put together the line up based on available personnel and knowledge (some of which might be provided by the FO). He is paid to win, so why would he put together a line up that he felt didn’t give him the best shot a doing so?

          • package206

            He might be required to use that info by management. I disagree, some managers have complete control of the everyday lineups and using of personnel. Every manager does not need to use every scrap of info provided by the FO.

          • Bob_Hendley

            Don’t believe that he is required to “use” information, but why should he ignore it?

          • package206

            I am not saying he shouldn’t use it if he feels it is warranted but being made to is a whole other issue.

    • Bob_Hendley

      I believe he decides based on available personnel, which is the responsibility of the FO.

  • foul tip

    OK, where’s Alex G for about the 3rd straight game? There was some mention of his grimacing after hitting an OF wall the other day as well as some less than stellar LF defense–maybe not too surprising since he’s always been an infielder.

    He may be hurt and the team doing its usual close-mouthed thing about injuries. Otherwise, given the stick he swings it’s unlikely his defense is bad enough that he shouldn’t start at least every other day–someplace.

    He may be the best argument the Dodgers have had for the DH–other than HanRam and ManRam before him….

    • WBBsAs

      Except for his game-winning slam, he’s hit poorly in recent weeks. It’s a judgement call whether to play him or not, though so far he appears to be an adequate 3B.

    • Bob_Hendley

      With Puig back in the rotation getting him starts will be a bit more difficult. An obvious choice against lefties, but with Klayton going the other night I think that defense trumped at 3rd and LF. He has been hitting well, OPS 1.006 over the past two weeks. Don’t believe that an injury is the explanation.

  • WBBsAs

    So, I’m blacked out AND Steinered tonight.

    • package206

      Just a lazy fly ball from Grandal in his 1st AB. Figures.

      • WBBsAs

        As opposed to the weak left side grounder from A.J.

        • package206

          Forgot to tell you that Grandal grounded out weakly to 2nd base on his second ab.

          • WBBsAs

            So, his average is now only double A.J.’s.

            You need to have some perspective. There’s a big difference between a young player who makes a one-time mistake, owns up to it, and accepts his punishment, on the one hand; on the other hand, there are those who deny it and cover it up such as ARod, Bonds (who got his “best friend” to do his time for him, and Melky (who created a fake website to try to weasel out of it). Those are the villains of this saga.

  • Bob_Hendley

    Need to get to these guys early and avoid their pen.

  • foul tip

    Graphic just flashed up: Cards scoreless last 14 innings. Maybe the Dodger hitting woes rubbed off.

    Course, CK and Zach do that kind of thing a bunch.

  • Missed a big chance there.

  • package206

    Peralta cut that lead in half.

    • WBBsAs

      Your math appears better than your player evaluations.

      • package206

        We shall see about my player evaluations.

        • WBBsAs

          So, does A.J. beat out the Busted Poseur as All-Star starter?

          • package206

            No because Buster is an All Star even though I do not like his team.

          • WBBsAs

            So, Bochy picks A.J. as the Poseur’s backup, then.

          • package206

            No because the Dodgers will not play AJ enough for him to play better.

          • WBBsAs

            The Dodgers will not play A.J. very much because he’s no longer very good. Playing him more now would be equivalent to importing another Rod Barajas or Dioner Navarro, even when there’s a younger and more talented replacement available.

      • package206

        Well, Grandal flew out again for his 3rd AB.

        • WBBsAs

          Clearly, if A.J. were starting every day, this team would 56-0.

          • package206

            I do not think they would be 56-0 but they would have much better character.

          • WBBsAs

            So, owning up to your mistakes demonstrates lack of character.

          • package206

            No, cheating would be lack of character.

          • WBBsAs

            So, all misdemeanors merit life sentences…

          • package206

            Just because he is on the team does not make him an all star or have stellar character as you seem to want to infer.

          • WBBsAs

            Your non sequiturs are showing.

  • Bob_Hendley

    Dang!

  • Heck of a throw and tag.

  • WinnipegDave

    After all the comments about how bad the lineup was last night (at least, I thought it was bad) tonight’s felt like a dream. However, either way you slice it, the Dodgers still have only scored 2 runs.

    • WBBsAs

      Lynn, arguably, has more talent than GarcĂ­a.

      • WinnipegDave

        That, WBBsAs, is a most excellent point.

  • Bob_Hendley

    Love to see Puig park one here.

    • Bob_Hendley

      I guess he did as well.

  • WinnipegDave

    I like Nicassio here but wish he had just started the inning – matchup or not.

  • Bob_Hendley

    Apart from the abbreviated start, Juan has been pretty good this year. Where is Baez?

    • WinnipegDave

      Is he on the DL with Paco?

      • WBBsAs

        Yes, he is, but due back soon I think.

      • Bob_Hendley

        Sure, but it seems like he left long ago, no?

  • Bob_in_Vegas

    C’mon, bullpen . . .

  • Bob_in_Vegas

    What a waste . . . again.
    It’s as if the Dodgers can’t stand the pressure of playing quality teams and find ways to lose.

  • Bob_Hendley

    Drat!

  • Still no outs, too.

  • Can’t stand prosperity, this bullpen.

  • package206

    The bullpen needs help. Bad.

    • WBBsAs

      Puig didn’t help there.

  • RBI

    Came home from a Crime Writers Conference, to see the meltdown. There goes the RBI theory!

    • package206

      We’ve been robbed!

      • RBI

        Good one. I was going to say, the Cards are killing us.

        • package206

          Its a crime, I tell ya!

  • Wow, Andre!

  • Poor Zack.

  • RBI

    Our offense has completely disappeared. Even Adrian looks terrible at the plate right now.

  • RBI

    Anyone know why Guerrero is AWOL right now?

    • package206

      No one will say. This team keeps everything quiet.

    • Bob_Hendley

      You mean not in the starting line up?

      • RBI

        Yes. But also am I right that he hasn’t pinch hit the last few games? I could be very wrong. ( And of course, the minute I wrote this, he came in to pinch hit.

        • Bob_Hendley

          Oh. Yes, there is a discussion on this earlier in the thread, including questioning whether perhaps he is injured.

  • package206

    Should have left Greinke in. He could have lost the game on his own.

  • package206

    Well, Grandal is 0-4. I really do think Ellis could have done that good.

  • That is Guerrero now.

  • WinnipegDave

    Something tells me the D’Backs will be welcomed relief for the Dodgers.

    • Bob_Hendley

      If only. They seem to be heating up themselves and approaching .500. Sandwiched around being sweep by the Cards, they have won series against Miami (four game sweep), Cubs, Brewers and Braves, before splitting with the Mets this weekend.

  • package206

    THE END

  • WinnipegDave

    I give Rollins some props. He had a great at bat right there.

    • RBI

      Only batter to come close to Rosenthal.

  • RBI

    Dang. Glad to see them go! And listening to ESPN was truly torturous.

  • WinnipegDave

    No more Cards til the playoffs. Be interesting to see how different our team is then from now.

    • RBI

      That is good news.

      • Bob_Hendley

        Get it wherever we can at this point.

    • Bob_Hendley

      Of course, we have had winning seasons against the Cards from 2010 to 2014, but didn’t help us much in the playoffs.

      • WBBsAs

        In 1988, the Dodgers lost 11 of 12 regular-season games to the Mets.

        • Bob_in_Vegas

          I remember that, but I don’t remember if their losses were like this.
          Going back to the playoffs, the Dodgers could’ve/should’ve won almost every one — but they found ways to lose, including the incredible one where Kersh had the huge lead.

          • Bob_Hendley

            They pretty much killed us, the Mets, scoring 4.5 per game against our 1.6.

    • Bob_in_Vegas

      Don’t wanna be Debbie Downer, just Robert Realist . . . we know this Dodger team has talent and we’ve seen how well they CAN play. But we’ve also seen how poor they can play and how they can manufacture defeat from seeming victory. The big question is which version will show up more often through the rest of the regular season.

  • john galt

    There is too much talent on this team to lose as much as they do. You can’t fire 25 players, so maybe you change the manager. No, he can’t hit or pitch for them, but it’s his responsibility to get them to perform better. So everybody’s at fault but only the manager can take the rap for it. We’ll see pretty soon.

    • Bob_Hendley

      Seems unlikely. We have the second best record in the NL.

      • 32-25.

        • john galt

          That would be a valid argument except Ethier, Joc, Turner, and a bunch of kid pitchers stepped up and played fine. They did everything that could have been asked of them, but the club lost. No DL excuses.

          • WBBsAs

            The argument may be that those guys are capable of keeping you afloat for a while but that, after a certain time, their limitations become more obvious.

  • RBI

    Just saw that the Nationals are 2-8 over the last ten. Wonder how their fans are feeling?

    • Bob_Hendley

      Was at the park on Saturday, when they lost to the Cubs. No one calling for the manager’s head, yet. Mets took over first place in the division today.

      • WBBsAs

        Hopefully, the Metropolitans swat the Gnats well enough to keep that spot over the next few days.

    • Bob_in_Vegas

      The last 10 for the Dodgers are the worst of the stretch, but they have a losing record since May 13th.

  • Bob_in_Vegas

    Counting the playoffs, it sure seems when the Dodgers have a national audience, they don’t do well.
    Anyone with #s on that?

    • Bob_Hendley

      Probably more to do with who they are playing in order to rate a national game, rather than the extra glare of the network cameras.

  • NPUT